Menachos 4a

מנחות ד׳ ע״א

Menachot 4a

Learn Menachos 4a step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

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Topic

רבי שמעון's unresolved view on a קומץ taken for a זבח; the sources for why מנחת חוטא and מנחת קנאות are invalid שלא לשמה, and why an אשם is not; and רב's rule about the מנחת העומר.

Overview

This amud opens in the middle of רב הושעיא's question to רב אסי: what would רבי שמעון say if the קומץ of a מנחה was taken with the intent of an animal offering? רב אסי answers that no one knows רבי שמעון's real reasoning. The גמרא explains that the earlier explanations of רבה, רבא and רב אשי had each been challenged, so none could settle the question. Next the גמרא returns to the משנה and asks why מנחת קנאות is invalid שלא לשמה. רב נחמן first links it to a חטאת through the shared word עון. After a back-and-forth about whether the אשם would then be invalid too, the גמרא limits that link to leftover money (מותר נדבה). The real source for both מנחת חוטא and מנחת קנאות turns out to be the word ״היא״, as with a חטאת. The ״הוא״ written about an אשם teaches something else: an אשם stays an אשם until בית דין sends it out to graze. Finally רב rules that a מנחת העומר done שלא לשמה is פסולה, because it came to permit the new grain and failed, and he begins to apply this to the אשם נזיר, which continues on the next amud.

Opening lines

The steps (25)

1. QuestionWhat does רבי שמעון hold here? First possibility
2. QuestionSecond possibility: the reason is the פסוק about the מנחה
3. Responseרב אסי: we do not know רבי שמעון's reasoning
4. RejectionWhy רב אסי did not answer like רבה
5. RejectionWhy רב אסי did not answer like רבא
6. Rejectionרב אשי's explanation could not be used either
7. QuestionWhere do we learn that the meal offering of jealousy is an exception?
8. ResponseA teaching about the jealousy offering's leftover money
9. ProofThe shared word "iniquity" links the jealousy offering to a sin offering
10. ChallengeThen the אשם should also be invalid שלא לשמה
11. Resolution'עון' is not the same as 'עונו'
12. RejectionA small wording difference does not stop a link
13. ChallengeThe אשם could learn 'עונו' from שמיעת הקול
14. ResolutionThe word-link teaches only about leftover money
15. ChallengeObjection: a word-link cannot be used halfway
16. ResolutionThe תורה limited the שלא לשמה rule to a חטאת
17. ChallengeThen where do we learn the two מנחות are invalid?
18. ResolutionThe word ״היא״ is written about them too
19. ChallengeThe word ״הוא״ also appears about an אשם
20. ResolutionThe ״הוא״ of אשם comes after the burning of the fats
21. ProofA ברייתא backs up the answer
22. QuestionSo what is the word ״הוא״ there for?
23. Responseרב הונא's ruling about an אשם sent out to graze
24. Proof״הוא״ means the אשם stays what it is
25. Statementרב: An עומר Offering Done for the Wrong Purpose Is Disqualified