Gemara Clarity

Menachos 4b

מנחות ד׳ ע״ב

Menachot 4b

Learn Menachos 4b step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

Open Menachos 4b in Gemara Clarity

Topic

Offerings that come להכשיר: why the עומר and the אשם נזיר and אשם מצורע are פסול שלא לשמן, and רבי ירמיה's distinction between מכפרים and מכשירים

Overview

The amud opens at the end of a statement about offerings that have a special job. It says a מנחת העומר whose קמיצה was done שלא לשמה is פסולה. It also says an אשם נזיר or אשם מצורע slaughtered שלא לשמן is פסול, because they came להכשיר and failed. The גמרא asks why our משנה does not list the עומר among its exceptions. It answers that the משנה deals only with individual, independent מנחות that have no fixed date. Next, the גמרא asks why the opening משנה of זבחים does not list these two guilt offerings. It answers that other kinds of אשם are כשר, so the משנה could not list 'אשם' as one blanket exception. The גמרא then asks why making fit should differ from atoning. רבי ירמיה answers that the Torah separates מכפרים from מכשירים: only מכפרים can be brought after the owner's death, as shown by the woman after childbirth. רבי יהודה בריה דרבי שמעון בן פזי objects from a משנה where a dead נזיר's עולה and שלמים are still brought. רב פפא answers that רבי ירמיה meant only a fixed הכשר, and the נזיר's offerings are a non-fixed הכשר. The explanation of why the נזיר's offerings count as non-fixed continues on the next amud.

Opening lines

וַאֲשַׁם מְצוֹרָע

And the guilt offering of a leper,

שֶׁשְּׁחָטָן שֶׁלֹּא לִשְׁמָן – פְּסוּלִין,

that one slaughtered them not for their sake, they are disqualified,

הוֹאִיל וּבָאוּ לְהַכְשִׁיר

since they came to render fit,

וְלֹא הִכְשִׁירוּ.

and they did not render fit.

The steps (15)

  1. StatementThe leper's guilt offering is also disqualified
  2. ChallengeWhy doesn't the משנה list the עומר as an exception?
  3. ResolutionThe משנה only lists individual offerings
  4. ResolutionThe משנה only lists meal offerings brought on their own
  5. ResolutionThe משנה only lists offerings without a fixed date
  6. StatementQuoting the rule about the nazirite's and leper's guilt offerings
  7. ChallengeThe משנה in זבחים lists only פסח and חטאת as exceptions
  8. ResolutionThe משנה could not list אשם, because other kinds of אשם are valid
  9. ChallengeWhy should 'making fit' be different from 'atoning'?
  10. ResolutionOfferings that atone versus offerings that make a person fit
  11. ProofProof from the woman who died after childbirth
  12. ChallengeChallenge: fitness offerings are also brought after death
  13. ProofThe rest of the משנה: a נזיר who died
  14. ChallengeThe punchline: the נזיר's offerings come after death
  15. Resolutionרב פפא limits the rule to a fixed הכשר