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Menachos 63a

מנחות ס״ג ע״א

Menachot 63a

Learn Menachos 63a step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

Open Menachos 63a in Gemara Clarity

Topic

Vows of מנחות in a מחבת, a מרחשת and an oven, and the sources for each view

Overview

The משנה rules that if someone vows a מנחה made in a מחבת, he may not bring it in a מרחשת, and the reverse is also true. רבי יוסי הגלילי says the difference is that a מרחשת has a cover. רבי חנינא בן גמליאל says a מרחשת is deep and a מחבת is flat. The גמרא shows that wordplay on the names cannot prove רבי יוסי הגלילי's view, so it must be a tradition. רבי חנינא בן גמליאל's view comes from the פסוק: 'in' the מרחשת and 'on' the מחבת. A ברייתא then brings בית שמאי, who are unsure whether these names refer to vessels or to how the מנחה is made. בית הלל prove they are names of vessels. A second משנה discusses a vow of a מנחה baked 'in an oven' and whether loaves and wafers may be mixed. The גמרא brings the sources for each view, and רבא answers a challenge to רבי שמעון. The amud ends as רבי שמעון begins his reply to רבי יהודה, which continues on the next amud.

Opening lines

מַתְנִי׳

MISHNAH:

הָאוֹמֵר ״הֲרֵי עָלַי בְּמַחֲבַת״

One who says: "It is upon me in a machavat"

לֹא יָבִיא בְּמַרְחֶשֶׁת,

may not bring it in a marcheshet;

״בְּמַרְחֶשֶׁת״ – לֹא יָבִיא בְּמַחֲבַת.

if he said "in a marcheshet," he may not bring it in a machavat.

The steps (22)

  1. StatementA vow for one pan cannot be paid with the other
  2. Statementרבי יוסי הגלילי: the difference is a cover
  3. Statementרבי חנינא בן גמליאל: deep versus flat
  4. QuestionWhat is the source for רבי יוסי הגלילי?
  5. ResponseA suggested source from the meaning of the names
  6. RejectionThe wordplay works just as well in reverse
  7. Conclusionרבי יוסי הגלילי's view is a received tradition
  8. ProofA פסוק source for רבי חנינא בן גמליאל
  9. Statementבית שמאי: A vow of "a מרחשת" must wait until אליהו comes
  10. ResponseWhy בית שמאי are unsure: named for the vessel, or for how it is made?
  11. Statementבית הלל: There was a vessel in the מקדש called מרחשת
  12. ProofProof from "in the מרחשת and on the מחבת": the names come from the vessels
  13. StatementVowing a מנחה baked in an oven
  14. StatementMixing loaves and wafers in a baked מנחה
  15. ProofThe פסוק source for excluding other baking surfaces
  16. Proofרבי יהודה includes the כופח from the double 'oven'
  17. Statementרבי שמעון uses the two mentions for two laws
  18. ChallengeDoes רבי שמעון really hold the oven makes the מנחה holy?
  19. Resolutionרבא: the oven requirement is about how the owner dedicates it
  20. StatementBack to the baked מנחה: it is a voluntary offering
  21. Proofרבי יהודה: one offering, not a mix of חלות and רקיקין
  22. Rejectionרבי שמעון begins his reply to רבי יהודה