Menachos 79a

מנחות ע״ט ע״א

Menachot 79a

Learn Menachos 79a step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

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Topic

Loaves of a תודה slaughtered with a flaw, the רבא–רבה dispute about a חטאת, and when נסכים become holy

Overview

The amud continues the ברייתא about the forty loaves of a תודה: does slaughtering the animal make them holy when something is wrong with the slaughter? רבי מאיר says רבי אליעזר and רבי יהושע argue about a בעל מום. רבי יהודה says everyone agrees about טריפה, חוץ לזמנו and בעל מום, and the argument is only about חוץ למקומו. רבי אליעזר compares that case to חוץ לזמנו, since both are about wrong intention. רבי יהושע compares it to בעל מום, since neither carries כרת, and then points to שלא לשמו, which matches on both features, so רבי אליעזר falls silent. The גמרא explains רבי מאיר's version as a minor eye blemish, following רבי עקיבא. It then ties a dispute between רבא and רבה about a חטאת slaughtered חוץ למקומה to this debate, giving two versions of whether רבה changed his mind. After a short note on why the משנה mentions the איל המילואים, a new משנה deals with נסכים whose זבח turned out פסול. The גמרא uses that משנה to test זעירי's rule that נסכים become holy only at the slaughter, and defends the rule.

Opening lines

The steps (27)

1. Statementרבי מאיר's version: the dispute is about a blemished animal
2. Statementרבי יהודה's version: they argue only about intent outside its area
3. Proofרבי אליעזר compares 'outside its area' to 'beyond its time'
4. Proofרבי יהושע compares 'outside its area' to a blemished animal
5. Questionרבי אליעזר proposes testing which comparison fits better
6. Proofרבי אליעזר: compare intention to intention, not to a body defect
7. Proofרבי יהושע: compare by whether there is כרת
8. Rejectionרבי יהושע: even by your measure, שלא לשמו is the better match
9. Conclusionרבי אליעזר is silent
10. ChallengeQuestion on רבי מאיר: why is טריפה different from בעל מום?
11. ResolutionThe blemish is a small eye blemish, following רבי עקיבא
12. Resolutionרבי יהושע limits רבי עקיבא's rule to the animal itself
13. Statementרבא and רבה argue about a חטאת slaughtered with intent outside its place
14. StatementLinking רבא and רבה to רבי יהושע and רבי אליעזר
15. Conclusionרבה changes his mind and agrees with רבא
16. StatementA second version: רבה did not give up his view
17. ChallengeWhy does the משנה mention איל המילואים and not איל נזיר?
18. ResolutionThe משנה chose the original case
19. Statementמשנה: נסכים made holy when the זבח turned out invalid
20. Statementזעירי: נסכים become holy only with the slaughter
21. QuestionWhat is זעירי's source?
22. ResponseThe פסוק says 'זבח ונסכים'
23. ChallengeThe משנה about leftover נסכים seems to contradict זעירי
24. RejectionNo, the זבח became פסול only at the זריקה
25. QuestionWhose opinion does this answer follow?
26. ResponseIt follows רבי: one of two מתירין is enough
27. ResolutionIt can even follow רבי אלעזר ברבי שמעון: the blood was collected and spilled