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Menachos 7a

מנחות ז׳ ע״א

Menachot 7a

Learn Menachos 7a step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

Open Menachos 7a in Gemara Clarity

Topic

How a returned קומץ avoids being sanctified by a כלי שרת, and whether a קומץ may be taken from a vessel resting on the ground

Overview

The amud opens with a קשיא: when the כהן puts the קומץ back into the vessel holding the מנחה, that כלי שרת should sanctify it and make it פסול. רבי יוחנן answers that כלי שרת sanctify only with intent (מדעת). The גמרא then explains that vessels do not sanctify פסולין to be offered, but they do sanctify them so that they become disqualified. רב עמרם gives a different answer: the קומץ was put back on top of the flour and never entered the vessel. After two more rounds, his case becomes a level-full bowl where the handful slides into the dent by itself, as if a monkey put it there. רבי ירמיה asks why the גמרא did not simply say the vessel was on the ground. This opens the question of whether a קומץ may be taken from a vessel resting on the ground. רבי זירא tells the story of אבימי, who always answered רב נחמן that another כהן lifts the vessel, and he defends that answer against a משנה. Finally the question is put to רב ששת, who points to how the לחם הפנים and its bowls are changed on שבת, and his proof continues on the next amud.

Opening lines

וְכִי מַהְדַּר לֵיהּ לְקוֹמֶץ לְדוּכְתֵּיהּ,

And when he returns the handful to its place,

(תִּקְדּוֹשׁ) [לִקְדּוֹשׁ] וְלִפְסוֹל.

it should become sanctified and become disqualified.

אָמַר רַבִּי יוֹחָנָן, זֹאת אוֹמֶרֶת:

Rabbi Yoḥanan said: That is to say:

כְּלֵי שָׁרֵת אֵין מְקַדְּשִׁין

service vessels do not sanctify

The steps (30)

  1. ChallengePutting the handful back should sanctify it and disqualify it
  2. ResolutionService vessels sanctify only with intent
  3. ChallengeChallenge from ריש לקיש's question about disqualified items
  4. ResolutionThey do not sanctify to be offered, but they do sanctify to become disqualified
  5. Resolutionרב עמרם: the handful was put on top of a heaped bowl
  6. ChallengeHow could he take a handful from a heaped bowl?
  7. ResolutionThe bowl was filled exactly to the brim
  8. ChallengeTaking the handful leaves a dent inside the vessel
  9. ResolutionThe handful slides back in by itself
  10. ChallengeWhy not use a vessel resting on the ground?
  11. QuestionCan a קומץ be taken from a vessel on the ground?
  12. ResponseThis was an open question in רב חסדא's study hall
  13. ChallengeWasn't אבימי רב חסדא's teacher?
  14. Resolutionאבימי forgot the tractate and went to his student to relearn it
  15. ChallengeWhy didn't אבימי call his student to come to him
  16. ResolutionGoing himself would help him remember better
  17. Questionרב נחמן asks Avimi how one takes a handful
  18. Responseאבימי points to a vessel: from this one
  19. ChallengeCan one take a handful from a vessel on the ground
  20. ResolutionA כהן lifts the vessel first
  21. QuestionHow are the meal offerings sanctified
  22. Responseאבימי says: one places it into this vessel
  23. ChallengeCan a vessel on the ground sanctify
  24. ResolutionAgain, a כהן lifts the vessel
  25. ChallengeThen you need three כהנים
  26. ResolutionEven thirteen is fine, like the daily offering
  27. ChallengeThe משנה lists the services of a מנחה but never mentions lifting
  28. ResolutionThe משנה lists services, not the number of כהנים
  29. QuestionMay one take the קמיצה from a vessel resting on the ground?
  30. Responseרב ששת points to how the לחם הפנים and בזיכין are handled