Menachos 80b

מנחות פ׳ ע״ב

Menachot 80b

Learn Menachos 80b step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

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Topic

Leftover תודה money, replacement animals of a lost תודה or חטאת, and a תודה mixed up with its תמורה.

Overview

The amud opens by finishing a ברייתא: leftover money from a תודה may buy its לחם, but leftover money from the לחם may not buy a תודה. The גמרא explains this with רב כהנא's teaching that the loaves are called 'תודה', while the תודה is never called 'לחם'. Next, רבא rules on three תודה animals set aside one after another as replacements, and says which of them still need loaves depending on which one was offered. רבי זירא applies the same pattern to חטאות, where the leftover animals either die or graze. In both cases אביי disagrees and says all of them are replacements of one another. רבי חייא then teaches that if a תודה got mixed up with its תמורה and one died, the survivor has no remedy, and the גמרא limits this to someone who said 'הרי זו'. A list of challenges to רבי חייא follows. לוי proposes several fixes before רבי. רבי rejects each one, and his reason for the last rejection comes on the next amud.

Opening lines

The steps (26)

1. StatementLeftover money: from the offering to the loaves, but not back
2. QuestionWhy does the money only go one way?
3. ResponseSuggestion: the loaves are called 'תודה'
4. ChallengeChallenge: then the reverse should work too
5. ResolutionThe name only works one way
6. Statementרבא's case of three replacement offerings, offered with the first
7. StatementOffered with the third
8. StatementOffered with the middle one
9. Statementאביי: all three replace one another
10. Statementרבי זירא applies the three-animal case to sin offerings: atonement with the first
11. StatementAtonement with the third sin offering
12. StatementAtonement with the middle sin offering
13. Statementאביי: whichever one is offered, the other two die
14. QuestionWhy did רבי זירא need to say 'and so too'?
15. ResponseSin offerings cannot be added voluntarily, yet the rule is the same
16. StatementA thanks offering mixed with its substitute: the survivor has no remedy
17. StatementWhy there is no remedy: loaves or no loaves, either choice could be wrong
18. ChallengeWhat case is רבי חייא talking about?
19. ResolutionThe case is where he said 'הרי זו'
20. StatementA memory aid for the coming challenges
21. Challengeלוי suggests bringing loaves on a condition
22. ResolutionWe may not bring plain food into the עזרה
23. ChallengeBring a second animal with loaves, and the extra one becomes a peace offering
24. ResolutionRejected: it cuts short the eating time of the peace offering
25. ChallengeBring a second animal, and the extra one becomes leftover of a thanks offering
26. Resolutionרבי sharply rejects the leftover-offering plan