Gemara Clarity

Menachos 81a

מנחות פ״א ע״א

Menachot 81a

Learn Menachos 81a step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

Open Menachos 81a in Gemara Clarity

Topic

Every attempted fix for a תודה mixed up with its תמורה is rejected; then a new משנה on paying for a vowed תודה from חולין.

Overview

The background case: a תודה (thanks offering) got mixed up with its תמורה (an animal someone tried to swap into its holiness), and then one of the two died. We don't know if the animal that is left is the real תודה, which needs forty loaves, or the תמורה, which comes without bread. The ruling of רבי חייא is that there is no fix, and the גמרא now tests one possible fix after another. A backup animal fails because you don't set aside a 'leftover' on purpose. רבי יצחק בר שמואל בר מרתא's plan fails because it could create a תמורה, which is punished with lashes. Bread kept outside the courtyard wall fails because four loaves must be waved inside the עזרה, and possibly-ordinary bread may not go in. רב שישא's eighty loaves fail because some holy bread would go uneaten. רב אשי's pregnant-animal plan fails because רבי יוחנן's rule may not let the owner steer the baby. רב דימי's three-animal plan fails because it needs a new vow, and the פסוק says it is better not to vow. So there is no fix. Then a new משנה begins: someone who says 'הרי עלי תודה' must bring the animal and its loaves from חולין.

Opening lines

וְכִי מַפְרִישִׁין תְּחִלָּה לְמוֹתָרוֹת?

And does one set aside, from the start, for leftovers?

יָתֵיב רַבִּי יִצְחָק בַּר שְׁמוּאֵל בַּר מָרְתָא

Rabbi Yitzchak bar Shmuel bar Marta was sitting

קַמֵּיהּ דְּרַב נַחְמָן,

before Rav Nachman,

וְיָתֵיב וְקָאָמַר:

and he was sitting and saying:

The steps (12)

  1. RejectionYou don't set aside an animal as a leftover from the start
  2. StatementA new fix: bring an animal and bread with a double condition
  3. Rejectionרב נחמן: making a תמורה earns forty lashes
  4. Statementאביי's group suggests bread outside the courtyard wall, based on רבי יוחנן
  5. RejectionThe bread-outside-the-wall plan fails because of the waving
  6. Challengeרב שישא's plan: bring eighty loaves using חזקיה's rule
  7. RejectionRejected: holy bread would end up uneaten
  8. Challengeרב אשי's plan: use a pregnant animal, following רבי יוחנן
  9. Rejectionרב כהנא rejects the pregnant-animal plan
  10. Challengeרב דימי suggests a three-animal plan
  11. Rejectionרבינא rejects the plan: don't make vows on purpose
  12. StatementNew משנה: a vowed thanks offering comes from ordinary money