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Menachos 89b

מנחות פ״ט ע״ב

Menachot 89b

Learn Menachos 89b step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

Open Menachos 89b in Gemara Clarity

Topic

Mixing the נסכים of different קרבנות, the עומר lamb's נסכים, and an offering slaughtered שלא לשמו that keeps its special requirements

Overview

This amud finishes the משנה about mixing the נסכים of different קרבנות. נסכים with the same oil-to-flour ratio may be mixed, but lamb נסכים may not be mixed with bull or ram נסכים. The משנה also teaches that the lamb brought with the עומר has double flour but not double oil and wine. The גמרא points out that a ברייתא forbids mixing the parts of different offerings, which seems to contradict the משנה. רבי יוחנן answers that the משנה speaks only after the fact. The גמרא shows from the משנה's structure that this does not work. אביי then explains that wine may be mixed, except when the flour and oil are still separate and unburned. Next, a ברייתא and רבי אלעזר derive from 'ונסכה' (as written) and 'ונסכו' (as read) that the עומר lamb's oil, like its wine, stays a quarter הין. Finally, רבי יוחנן rules that an אשם מצורע slaughtered שלא לשמו still needs נסכים. רב מנשיא בר גדא challenges this from the עומר lamb and the תמיד. אביי answers that רבי יוחנן gave only one example, and רבי אבא begins a different answer that continues on the next amud.

Opening lines

שֶׁל יוֹם בְּשֶׁל אֶמֶשׁ.

[And one may mix the libations] of today with those of yesterday.

אֲבָל אֵין מְעָרְבִין נִסְכֵי כְבָשִׂים

But one may not mix the libations of lambs

בְּנִסְכֵי פָרִים וְאֵילִים,

with the libations of bulls and rams,

וְאִם בְּלָלָן אֵלּוּ בִּפְנֵי עַצְמָן

and if one mixed [flour and oil of] these by themselves

The steps (23)

  1. StatementToday's libations may be mixed with yesterday's
  2. StatementLamb libations may not be mixed with bull or ram libations
  3. StatementThe lamb of the עומר gets double flour but not double libations
  4. ChallengeThe גמרא sets up a contradiction to the משנה
  5. ChallengeThe ברייתא: offerings' parts should not be mixed
  6. Resolutionרבי יוחנן: the משנה means only after the fact
  7. ChallengeThe end of the משנה shows its start is about לכתחילה
  8. Resolutionאביי: the wine may be mixed from the start
  9. ChallengeA ברייתא says wine may be mixed from the start
  10. Resolutionאביי's new reading explains when wine may be mixed
  11. StatementThe מנחה of the lamb brought with the עומר is doubled
  12. QuestionShould the wine be doubled too?
  13. ResponseThe פסוק says the wine stays a quarter הין
  14. QuestionMaybe the oil should be doubled, since it is mixed into the flour
  15. ConclusionAll the נסכים stay a quarter הין, oil included
  16. QuestionWhere exactly is this learned from?
  17. ResponseWritten one way, read another way
  18. ConclusionThe oil is measured like the wine
  19. StatementA מצורע's אשם slaughtered for the wrong purpose still needs נסכים
  20. ChallengeThen the עומר lamb should keep its doubled מנחה
  21. ChallengeThe challenge continues with the morning and afternoon תמיד
  22. Resolutionאביי: רבי יוחנן agrees and just mentioned one example
  23. Resolutionרבי אבא begins a different answer: the other cases are עולות