Menachos 8a

מנחות ח׳ ע״א

Menachot 8a

Learn Menachos 8a step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

Open Menachos 8a in Gemara Clarity

Topic

Does each sage learn one law of offerings from another? רבי אלעזר, רבי יוחנן and רב on making a מנחה (and the חביתין) holy in halves, plus רב's rule on oil and לבונה

Overview

The גמרא asks why רבי אלעזר does not apply his rule about דם to the חביתין of the כהן גדול. It answers that he learns a מנחה only from another מנחה, never from דם. It then tests that answer with a ברייתא about לחם הפנים that broke, and defends רבי אלעזר: the לבונה is already set apart in its bowls, and he holds the קומץ is burned even when the שירים become lacking. Next the גמרא returns to the main dispute. רבי יוחנן says the חביתין cannot become holy in halves, based on the פסוק 'מנחה מחציתה'. רבי אלעזר says they can. רבי אלעזר is defended against a ברייתא and the word 'חוקה'. רבי יוחנן is defended by the rule that someone who plans to add more flour is a special case. The גמרא concludes that רב must hold like רבי יוחנן. Finally it quotes רב's rule in full: a מנחה becomes holy without its oil or לבונה, and oil and לבונה each become holy without the other. The amud ends as a statement of רבי חנינא begins, which continues on the next amud.

Opening lines

The steps (23)

1. ChallengeWhy not learn this from blood?
2. ChallengeBlocking the answer that he never compares topics
3. ResolutionA meal offering from a meal offering, but not from blood
4. ChallengeDoes he really compare one meal offering to another?
5. Statementרבי אלעזר: once the time comes, it counts as removed
6. ChallengeWhy not treat the broken bread like a meal offering that lost some before the handful was taken?
7. ResolutionThe frankincense of the showbread is already clearly set apart
8. ChallengeThen treat it like leftovers that became lacking before the burning
9. ResolutionIt is a dispute, and רבי אלעזר holds the handful is burned
10. StatementBack to the dispute: is the High Priest's griddle-cake offering sanctified in halves?
11. ProofThe verse behind רבי יוחנן's view
12. ChallengeA ברייתא says the חביתין must come from a whole עשרון
13. ResolutionThe whole עשרון is only the ideal way
14. ChallengeThe word חוקה should make the detail required
15. Resolutionחוקה refers only to bringing a whole עשרון from home
16. Challengeרבי יוחנן elsewhere says a half עשרון does become holy
17. Challengeרבי יוחנן does learn one case from another
18. ResolutionPlanning to add more flour is a different case
19. ChallengeWhich view does רב hold about the חביתין?
20. Challengeרב does learn one מנחה from another
21. Conclusionרב must hold like רבי יוחנן
22. StatementA meal offering becomes holy even without its oil or frankincense
23. StatementOil and frankincense each become holy on their own