Pesachim 85a
פסחים פ״ה ע״א
Learn Pesachim 85a step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.
Open Pesachim 85a in Gemara Clarity
Topic
שבירת עצם in the קרבן פסח, and the rabbinic decree of טומאה on פיגול, נותר, and יוצא
Overview
The amud opens by explaining that the איסור of breaking a bone of the קרבן פסח covers a bone with a כזית of marrow inside, even with no meat outside. A ברייתא proves this from the extra פסוק about פסח שני, so the עשה of eating does not override the לא תעשה. The גמרא then challenges this from the משנה about a limb that partly went out of its permitted area. אביי and רבינא answer the challenge. Next the גמרא quotes a משנה that פיגול and נותר make the hands טמא by rabbinic decree. It gives the reasons for the decree (suspected priests and lazy priests) and its minimum size (a כזית or a כביצה). It then asks whether the רבנן also decreed טומאה on meat that went out of its area (יוצא). Proofs from the limb משנה and from a ברייתא about moving פסח meat between groups are both pushed aside. The גמרא concludes that for פסח there is clearly no decree, because the group is careful, but for other קדשים the question ends in תיקו. The amud closes by starting a new question about the source for the איסור of carrying פסח meat out of its group, which continues on the next amud.
Opening lines
לָא, הָכִי קָאָמַר:
No, this is what it is saying:
אֶחָד עֶצֶם שֶׁיֵּשׁ עָלָיו
Both a bone that has on it
כְּזַיִת בָּשָׂר מִבַּחוּץ,
an olive-bulk of meat on the outside,
וְאֶחָד עֶצֶם שֶׁאֵין עָלָיו
and a bone that does not have on it
The steps (26)
- ResolutionReinterpreting the earlier ברייתא: meat outside or marrow inside
- ProofA ברייתא: the איסור covers bones with or without marrow
- ChallengeThe ברייתא's counter-suggestion: maybe the עשה overrides the איסור
- ProofThe extra פסוק in פסח שני proves bones with marrow are included
- ChallengeA משנה about a limb that partly left its permitted area
- ChallengeWhy peel all the way to the joint?
- Resolutionאביי: the bone might crack too far
- Resolutionרבינא: the משנה is about a thigh bone
- StatementA משנה: פיגול and נותר make the hands טמא
- StatementTwo reasons for the decree: suspected priests or lazy priests
- ResolutionThe two reasons are about two different items
- StatementOlive-size or egg-size: the minimum amount for the decree
- QuestionDid the rabbis make meat that left its area impure?
- ProofA limb that partly went out: cut it off at the joint
- ProofIf it were impure, cutting it off would not help
- RejectionThe touching is hidden, so it passes on no impurity
- ChallengeFor רבינא, the pieces really do touch
- ResolutionThe part that went out was too small
- ProofA ברייתא about moving פסח meat between groups
- ProofPure but forbidden, so no impurity decree
- RejectionMoving between groups does not disqualify
- ChallengeThe end of the ברייתא says eating the moved meat breaks a prohibition
- ChallengeThe proof can be answered for the כביצה view but not for the כזית view
- ResolutionFor פסח meat, the רבנן obviously made no decree
- ConclusionThe real question is about other sacrifices, and it stays unresolved
- QuestionOpening a new question about carrying פסח meat out