Gemara Clarity

Succah 12a

סוכה י״ב ע״א

Sukkah 12a

Learn Succah 12a step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

Open Succah 12a in Gemara Clarity

Topic

Torah sources for valid סכך, and why tied bundles may not be used as סכך.

Overview

The גמרא first looks for a פסוק behind the rule that סכך must grow from the ground and must not be able to receive טומאה. It rejects comparing סוכה to the חגיגה offering, since an offering is an animal. רבין, in the name of רבי יוחנן, reads 'באספך מגרנך ומיקבך' as speaking about the leftover waste of the threshing floor and winepress. רבי זירא defends this reading because you cannot roof with wine, but רבי ירמיה knocks that down with congealed wine. רב אשי then saves the proof: 'from' your threshing floor means what comes out of it, not the produce itself. רב חסדא brings a second source, the branches listed in נחמיה, and explains why both הדס and עץ עבות are mentioned. A new משנה rules that tied bundles may not be used as סכך. The גמרא matches the bundles rule to גזירת אוצר and the hollowed grain stack to תעשה ולא מן העשוי. רב אשי challenges that split, and רבי יוחנן's defense from the משנה's wording begins here and continues on the next amud.

Opening lines

אִי: מָה חֲגִיגָה בַּעֲלֵי חַיִּים,

If so: just as the festival offering is animals,

אַף סוּכָּה נָמֵי בַּעֲלֵי חַיִּים!

so too the sukkah should also be animals!

כִּי אֲתָא רָבִין אָמַר רַבִּי יוֹחָנָן,

When Ravin came, he said that Rabbi Yoḥanan said,

אָמַר קְרָא: ״בְּאׇסְפְּךָ מִגׇּרְנְךָ וּמִיִּקְבֶךָ״,

the verse states: 'When you gather from your threshing floor and from your winepress,'

The steps (19)

  1. ChallengeIf the סוכה is compared to the חגיגה offering, it would have to be made of animals
  2. StatementA new source: the verse speaks of the leftovers of the threshing floor and winepress
  3. ChallengeMaybe the verse means the actual grain and grapes
  4. ResolutionYou cannot roof a sukkah with wine
  5. ChallengeCongealed wine could be used for roofing
  6. Conclusionרבי זירא admits the proof has been broken
  7. Resolutionרב אשי saves the proof from the word 'from'
  8. Statementרב חסדא brings a source from נחמיה
  9. ChallengeWhy does the verse list myrtle twice?
  10. ResolutionWild myrtle for the סוכה, real myrtle for the לולב
  11. StatementNew משנה: tied bundles cannot be used as סכך
  12. Statementרבי יעקב heard two rulings from רבי יוחנן
  13. QuestionTwo reasons, but which goes with which case?
  14. Proofרבי ירמיה brings רבי יוחנן's explanation of the bundles rule
  15. ConclusionBundles are a storehouse decree, so the grain stack is the Torah rule
  16. QuestionWhy didn't רבי יעקב know this?
  17. Responseרבי יעקב never heard that statement
  18. Challengeרב אשי: Both reasons apply to both cases
  19. ResolutionDefending רבי יוחנן from the משנה's wording