Temurah 18b

תמורה י״ח ע״ב

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Topic

Which offspring and substitutes of קדשים are offered: שלמים, תודה and עולה

Overview

רבי חייא brings a ברייתא that reads two limits out of 'אם כשב הוא מקריב'. The first limit is that a שלמים's offspring is offered but the offspring's offspring is not. The second is that only a שלמים's offspring is offered, not that of other קדשים. The גמרא searches for what the second limit excludes and settles on the offspring of מעשר בהמה, because we cannot learn the possible from the impossible (בכור). Next, רבי פפייס's testimony about a cow eaten on פסח whose offspring was eaten 'on the חג' raises a בל תאחר problem. רב זביד answers that the animal was sick on שבועות, while רב אשי reads 'חג' as שבועות. The testimony itself shows, against רבי אליעזר, that a שלמים's offspring is offered. A new משנה rules that the offspring and substitutes of a תודה are like a תודה but come without loaves, and a ברייתא gives the source. A further משנה treats the substitute of an עולה and its offspring as an עולה. It also brings a dispute about the male calf of a female set aside as an עולה. רבה בר בר חנה and רבא explain why only the second case is disputed. Then רב חסדא and רבא resolve a contradiction in רבי אלעזר's view, and רבא's answer continues on the next amud.

Opening lines

The steps (27)

1. ProofA ברייתא supports רבי יהושע בן לוי: the second-generation offspring is not offered
2. StatementThe word 'הוא' limits offering to the offspring of a שלמים only
3. ChallengeWhich other offering's young could the פסוק be excluding?
4. Resolutionרבינא: the פסוק comes to exclude the offspring of a מעשר animal
5. ChallengeNo פסוק is needed for a מעשר animal's young: it comes from בכור by 'עברה'
6. ResolutionThe verse is still needed: you cannot learn the possible from the impossible
7. StatementQuoting the testimony of רבי יהושע and רבי פפייס
8. ChallengeAccording to רבא, the offspring should have been eaten by שבועות
9. ResolutionThe animal was sick on שבועות
10. Resolution'חג' here means שבועות
11. RejectionWhy רב זביד does not read 'חג' as שבועות
12. ChallengeThen what was the testimony teaching?
13. ResolutionThe testimony rejects רבי אליעזר
14. StatementOffspring and substitute of a thanks offering
15. QuestionWhat is the source?
16. ResponseA ברייתא on the word 'יקריבנו'
17. ResponseOnly one of the two thank offerings gets loaves
18. ResponseOffspring, substitutes and replacements are included as a thank offering
19. ConclusionOnly the original thank offering needs loaves
20. StatementThe substitute of a burnt offering and all its offspring are like a burnt offering
21. StatementA female set aside as a burnt offering that gave birth to a male
22. ChallengeWhy is there an argument in the second case but not the first?
23. Resolutionרבה בר בר חנה: the first case also follows רבי אלעזר
24. Resolutionרבא: even the חכמים agree in the case of a substitute
25. ChallengeContradiction: רבי אלעזר says to use only the money
26. Resolutionרב חסדא: רבי אלעזר was arguing within the חכמים' view
27. Resolutionרבא: The cases differ, because the mother is called עולה