Gemara Clarity

Temurah 23a

תמורה כ״ג ע״א

Learn Temurah 23a step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

Open Temurah 23a in Gemara Clarity

Topic

How רבי and רבנן disagree about a lost חטאת and its replacement: splitting the משנה, and the two versions of רב (רב הונא and רבי אבא)

Overview

The גמרא is working out whether the two clauses of the משנה about a lost חטאת and its replacement can follow one opinion. First it suggests that both fit רבנן, because if the owner simply took one and offered it, everyone agrees the other dies. According to רבי אבא in the name of רב, that answer does not work, so the רישא must follow רבנן and the סיפא must follow רבי. The גמרא asks what this adds when the dispute is stated openly later. It answers that the open dispute teaches that the point where the unnamed clauses clash is a real מחלוקת. Then the גמרא looks at רב הונא's version of רב, where the argument depends on whether the חכמים made a תקנה for קדשים. רב משרשיא challenges this from a ברייתא about eating holy food, and the גמרא answers that the ברייתא follows רבנן only. Finally, the גמרא brings רבי אבא's version and challenges it from the משנה about the extra goat of יום כיפור, together with רב's own comment on it. The answer to that challenge comes on the next amud.

Opening lines

הַכֹּל מוֹדִים

All agree

שֶׁאִם מָשַׁךְ אַחַת וְהִקְרִיבָהּ

that if he took one and sacrificed it

שֶׁהַשְּׁנִיָּה מֵתָה,

that the second one is left to die,

מַשְׁכַּחַתְּ לָהּ

you can find it (explain the last clause)

The steps (13)

  1. ResolutionBoth clauses can fit the Rabbis if the owner just took one and offered it
  2. ChallengeAccording to רבי אבא citing רב, that answer does not work
  3. ResolutionThe first clause follows the Rabbis and the last clause follows רבי
  4. ChallengeWhy hint at the dispute when it is taught openly later?
  5. ResolutionThe later clause shows there is a dispute
  6. Statementרב's explanation of where רבי and רבנן disagree
  7. ChallengeChallenge: the חכמים did make arrangements for holy food
  8. ProofSecond half of the ברייתא: no extra food when there is a lot
  9. ChallengeIsn't the ברייתא even according to רבי?
  10. ResolutionNo, the ברייתא follows the רבנן
  11. Statementרבי אבא's different version of רב
  12. ChallengeThe משנה about the extra goat of יום כיפור
  13. Challengeרב's own comment makes the challenge sharp