Temurah 23b

תמורה כ״ג ע״ב

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Topic

Temurah 23b: Leftover sin-offering animals and money. The views of רב הונא and רבי אבא are defended, and רבי אמי's ruling on two backup piles of money is examined.

Overview

This amud tests the views of רב הונא and רבי אבא about a lost חטאת that turns up after a replacement was set aside. First the גמרא says an earlier source follows only רבי, so it does not contradict רבי אבא. Then it brings two משניות, one about animals and one about money. Read closely, each seems to rule the same way in every case, which would refute both sages. Both times the גמרא answers that the משנה only teaches the clear-cut case and stays silent on cases that depend on other details. Next, רבי אמי rules that when someone sets aside two piles of money as a backup, the leftover pile goes to נדבה. The גמרא asks whose view needs this ruling and rejects רבי and the רבנן, since for them it is obvious. It says the ruling is needed for רבי שמעון, but then proves from the thirteen collection boxes and the teaching of יהוידע הכהן that רבי שמעון already holds of נדבה. The גמרא begins a new answer: maybe רבי שמעון allows נדבה only with one set of money. That answer continues on the next amud.

Opening lines

The steps (20)

1. ChallengeDoes this source follow even the רבנן?
2. ResolutionNo, the source follows only רבי
3. StatementThe משנה: a lost sin offering after a replacement was sacrificed
4. ChallengeInference: before the replacement is offered, the animal grazes in every case
5. ChallengeA refutation of both רב הונא and רבי אבא
6. ResolutionThe משנה only teaches a clear-cut case
7. StatementA משנה about lost money for a sin offering
8. ChallengeReading the משנה closely: otherwise the money is destroyed
9. ChallengeNo difference in any case: a refutation of both
10. ResolutionSame answer: only the clear-cut case is taught
11. Statementרבי אמי: Two Backup Piles of Money
12. QuestionWhose Opinion Is This?
13. ChallengeAccording to רבי, It Is Obvious
14. ChallengeAccording to the רבנן, It Is Even More Obvious
15. ResolutionNeeded for רבי שמעון
16. ChallengeChallenge: Can we really say רבי שמעון has no נדבה?
17. Proofרבי יהודה explains the six נדבה boxes
18. Proofרבי נחמיה (some say רבי שמעון) argues using the teaching of יהוידע הכהן
19. ChallengeSo רבי שמעון does hold of נדבה
20. ResolutionStill needed: maybe רבי שמעון holds of נדבה only with one set of money