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Zevachim 10b

זבחים י׳ ע״ב

Learn Zevachim 10b step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

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Topic

An אשם compared to a חטאת: לשמה, blood above the red line, and blood brought inside

Overview

This amud continues the debate between רבי אליעזר and רבי יהושע about an אשם slaughtered שלא לשמה. רבי אליעזר first learns it from the word "הוא", which appears by חטאת and פסח. רבי יהושע answers that by אשם the word "הוא" is said about the burning of the אימורין, and that step does not hold the קרבן back. רבי אליעזר then brings the פסוק "כחטאת כאשם". The גמרא asks why רבי יהושע pointed only to the difference that a חטאת's blood goes above the red line, when other differences seem available. It answers each one and concludes that he simply picked one of several reasons. The גמרא then asks why רבי אליעזר did not say an אשם's blood also goes above. After several logical proofs are tried and knocked down, the answer is that the word "אותה" limits blood-above to the חטאת. Finally, the גמרא quotes a משנה about blood brought into the היכל and asks for the reason of the חכמים. רבא begins a קל וחומר from the עולה, which continues on the next amud.

Opening lines

חוֹזְרַנִי חֲלִילָה.

I return around in a circle.

חָזַר רַבִּי אֱלִיעֶזֶר וְדָנוֹ דִּין אַחֵר:

Rabbi Eliezer went back and argued it with a different argument:

חַטָּאת נֶאֱמַר בָּהּ ״הִיא״ בִּשְׁחִיטָה –

A sin offering: "it" is stated about it in connection with slaughter –

הִיא לִשְׁמָהּ כְּשֵׁירָה,

"it": for its sake, it is fit;

The steps (34)

  1. RejectionThe argument is going in circles
  2. Statementרבי אליעזר's new source: "הוא" by חטאת and פסח
  3. ProofApplying "הוא" to the אשם
  4. Rejectionרבי יהושע: the "הוא" of אשם is said about something that does not hold it back
  5. Proofרבי אליעזר proves from a comparison פסוק that an אשם שלא לשמה is פסול
  6. ChallengeWhy not combine the חטאת and the פסח into one proof?
  7. ResolutionThe combined proof fails because both share the element of כרת
  8. ChallengeWhy didn't רבי יהושע use a stronger difference about the חטאת's blood?
  9. ResolutionThe comparison is only to the חטאות החיצוניות
  10. ChallengeAn outer חטאת is פסול if its blood goes inside
  11. Resolutionרבי אליעזר holds an אשם is the same
  12. ChallengeA חטאת atones for sins that carry כרת
  13. Resolutionרבי אליעזר compares only to the חטאת of שמיעת הקול
  14. ChallengeBut a חטאת needs four placements of blood
  15. Resolutionרבי אליעזר may hold like רבי ישמעאל
  16. ChallengeBut a חטאת's blood must go on all four corners
  17. Resolutionרבי יהושע just picked one of several reasons
  18. ChallengeWhy didn't רבי אליעזר say an אשם's blood also goes above?
  19. Resolutionאביי: a קל וחומר from an עולה shows an אשם's blood goes below
  20. RejectionThe קל וחומר fails: an עולה does not atone
  21. ResolutionThe bird חטאת proves the point
  22. RejectionThe bird חטאת is not a slaughtered offering
  23. ResolutionCombining the עולה and the bird חטאת
  24. Challengeרבא מפרזקיא: the אשם has a fixed price
  25. ResolutionA new reason: the word 'it' keeps blood-above for the חטאת alone
  26. ChallengeThen 'it' should also limit the rule of לשמה to the חטאת
  27. ResolutionThe 'it' about לשמה is not exclusive, because of the פסח
  28. ChallengeBy that logic, the 'it' about blood above is not exclusive either
  29. ResolutionAmong slaughtered offerings, nothing is left out
  30. ResolutionA second answer: the bird עולה's blood goes in a different place
  31. ProofThe ברייתא about the red line on the מזבח
  32. StatementThe משנה about blood brought into the היכל
  33. QuestionWhat is the reason of the חכמים?
  34. Responseרבא: a קל וחומר from the עולה blocks it