Zevachim 85b

זבחים פ״ה ע״ב

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Topic

Which offerings stay on the מזבח and which come down: early-placed אימורים, blemishes and נרבע, עולא on fire taking hold, and attached bones and hooves

Overview

The amud opens by finishing an earlier point: disqualified innards are still rinsed, even with some risk of a mistake, so that holy offerings do not lie around like a carcass. Next, רבי יוחנן asks about אימורי קדשים קלים that went up on the מזבח before זריקת הדם. In two versions of the story the question is either about ירידה or about מעילה, and both end with the same ruling: לא ירדו, ואין בהן מעילה. The גמרא then returns to the משנה. רבי יוחנן limits רבי עקיבא's leniency to small eye blemishes on an animal that was consecrated before it got the blemish, so a female עולה comes down even for רבי עקיבא. רבי ירמיה asks whether נרבע disqualifies birds, and רבה and רב נחמן בר יצחק prove that it does. The גמרא explains what רבי חנינא סגן הכהנים adds, and עולא rules that once the fire has taken hold of an offering, it goes up. A new משנה lists items that come down even if they went up. It also teaches that bones, horns and hooves go up only while they are still attached. A ברייתא gives the פסוקים behind that rule, and the גמרא begins to explain why both פסוקים are needed, which continues on the next amud.

Opening lines

The steps (29)

1. ChallengeWhy help the כהנים toward a mistake?
2. ResolutionRespect for holy things comes first
3. Questionרבי יוחנן's question: must they come down?
4. Challengeרבי אמי: ask about מעילה instead
5. ResolutionOnly זריקה decides מעילה
6. ConclusionResolution: they stay up, with no מעילה
7. QuestionSecond version: the question is about מעילה
8. Challengeרבי אמי: ask about ירידה instead
9. ResolutionThey became the מזבח's bread
10. ConclusionSame resolution in both versions
11. StatementQuoting the משנה about offerings disqualified outside the קודש
12. Statementרבי יוחנן limits רבי עקיבא to small eye blemishes consecrated first
13. Statementרבי עקיבא agrees a female עולה comes down
14. Questionרבי ירמיה asks whether a bird can be disqualified as נרבע
15. QuestionFirst side: נרבע is tied to רובע, so birds are excluded
16. QuestionSecond side: a sin was done with it
17. Proofרבה proves from רבי עקיבא that נרבע disqualifies birds
18. Proofרב נחמן בר יצחק brings support from a ברייתא
19. QuestionWhat does רבי חנינא סגן הכהנים add?
20. ResponseFirst answer: he reports a real event
21. ResponseSecond answer: he removed them quietly
22. Statementעולא limits 'if it came down, it does not go back up'
23. StatementTwo versions of where עולא's rule applies
24. ConclusionHow far each version reaches
25. StatementNew משנה: items that must come down even if they went up
26. StatementWool, hair, bones and hooves: attached or separated
27. StatementThe word 'everything' includes bones, tendons, horns and hooves
28. StatementOnce they come apart, they are not burned
29. ChallengeStarting a question about 'the meat and the blood'